Day 32: Did Jesus exist? And do I really care about the answer?

Bible Secret #5:  I found the Bible boring.  No, wait... that's not much of a secret.  Even my Mom figured that out.   But what I did when I found the Bible boring... now that is Secret #5.  

I became a bible hoarder.  My answer to the boredom of the bible was just to change versions.  Maybe the bible itself wasn't boring... maybe just the translations were dry.  So I would pick up a new translation and that would revive my interest for a while.  But it didn't take long and that book, or library of books, would dry up again.  I kept finding new ways to be bored and new translations or paraphrases wouldn't help.  I even attempted to learn Greek, so I could read the New Testament in its original language.  That was an unfulfilled challenge, but maybe the most heart felt one.  I still have my Greek New Testament... I didn't give it away yet.  

The last translation I tried was just a few years ago.  "The First Nations Version"  New Testament.  I thought this might be the one that would end the dryness.  It changed the names of the main characters and changed the oppressive language.  It seemed even more inviting than my experience with the Message... which was a translation that held my attention for the longest time.  Eventually, I let go of that one too.  When I woke up and found myself 2000 years past the story... I couldn't be inspired anymore.  

 * * * 

I am 2000 years past the story.   So with that fact in mind, I ask myself... What really matters?  How can we really know that the man that Christianity is built on really was someone who walked the planet?  Most bible scholars are convinced that Jesus existed.  Even Atheist Bible Scholar Bart Ehrman is convinced that someone existed that eventually became the model that Christianity was built on.  But not everyone is convinced.  

Richard Carrier and David Fitzgerald were two voices that peaked my interest as of late.  After a few years of being a Bart Ehrman fan, I wanted to listen to their side of the story.  Why were they not convinced that there was an actual man that the stories were based on.  Was Jesus all myth and no man?  Carrier and Fitzgerald seem to think so.  

I mentioned during Day 28 that there was one issue I had with Bart Ehrman that led to my disinterest in pursuing his influence in my life.  He still has amazing stuff out there and is a good resource I would still recommend.  I just didn't like his distaste for the mythicist perspective.  It seemed to me that Bart was mocking that perspective as having no place in biblical scholarship.  It drove me to listen more to the mythicist perspective and my understanding is that there is a lot less certainty in the mythicist view than there is in Ehrman's take on Jesus existence.  I guess it's the certainty that sours my palate now.  I am 2000 years past the story... we all are... we can't really "know"... we can only guess and eventually only believe.  

I will share the interviews these two mythicists had with Seth Andrews on The Thinking Atheist and then conclude with my conclusion about the second question in my title... because I don't think I can answer the first.  

                    Richard Carrier

                            Mystery Faith Pt 1 

                    David Fitzgerald

                            Mystery Faith Pt 2

* * *

Do I really care about the answer? 

The simple answer is no.  I just admitted that the actual written story had a difficult time holding my interest for so many years.  I could remember the stories, but did they actually mean something to me?  Could I even relate to them as humans.  The answer to that is no.  I admitted in one of my bible secrets that I thought the bible characters weren't human like me.  I couldn't relate to them.  They couldn't connect with me in my space.  It may be why I lost interest.  

I am still hoping one day that I can connect again with the words as literature, even though they hold no power for me anymore.  Maybe one day.  But not today.  

Day 32: 2022 - "Can I be like Mother Teresa?"

Day 32: 2023 - "The Nugget I hung in there for." 

Day 31: Why are Atheists still reading the Bible?

Bible Secret #4:  I went to Bible School, but not because I wanted to study the Bible.  The original plan after High School was to study Agriculture.  I had two options I was considering.  Olds College in Olds, Alberta and the University of Saskatchewan (U of S) in Saskatoon.  There was one major issue when it came to choosing and in 1987, I didn't choose either one and it was all because of two male classmates that I didn't want to go to school with again.  I had spent three years in boarding school with Dave and Rob and I had no desire to continue education with either one of them.  Rob was going to U of S in Agriculture and Dave was going to Olds College.  I decided to go to Camrose to Bible School instead.  There were also some of my classmates that were going as well, so it seemed like a good choice at the time.  But it had nothing to do with the Bible or my desire to figure out what that book meant to me.  Technically, according to the understood protocol at the time, I wasn't even a Christian.   But later I would be excited to admit that "I got saved at Bible School".  I just wish I could have seen the irony in that statement at the time.  I did get my chance to go to Olds College in 1990 and I graduated in 1992 with a Diploma in Agricultural Production... which was more than I got at Bible School... because I dropped out in my second year. 

* * * 

The only reason I am even aware of Dr. Joshua Bowen is because of his wife, Megan Lewis, co-host of Bart Ehrman's Podcast "Misquoting Jesus".  But I have to admit, at the time, he seemed to be too heady for me to investigate, until he showed up on the lineup of BAHACON.  Then I figured that he must be someone who was reaching out to the less educated folks like me.  

Dr. Bowen's and Megan's intellectual focus is in the study of ancient Iraq, or Assyria.  But Dr Bowen has a vested interest in helping atheists understand the bible.  That is what grabs me.  He is the author of "The Atheist's Guide to the Old Testament: Volumes 1 & 2"

I would like to get my hands on this collection, but my Apple Books still doesn't have the book version available for download, but the audio version narrated by Seth Andrews is available.  I'm just not much of a audio book enthusiast.  Even if it is Seth Andrews narrating. So I guess I will just have to wait.  

So the answer to my question "Why are Atheists still reading the Bible?" is more of a bone to throw out to the void in hopes someone can give me a better answer than my assumptions.  Bart Ehrman spends his life immersed in the Bible and it's history because of it's impact on culture.  Josh Bowen says his books are good for atheists to have an understanding of the context of the Old Testament when conversing with Christians.  The idea out there is that Atheists, especially Post-Christian Atheists, are more well read in the Bible than most Christians.  I would guess that now that the blinders are off, it's not as threatening to faith to read the text for what it offers.  

Here are some interviews with Dr. Joshua Bowen.  

Bible Scholar Dr. Joshua Bowen Leaves Christianity

The Atheist Handbook to the Old Testament: Volume One (With Dr. Joshua Bowen) 

Is Yahweh a Terrorist (with Dr. Josh Bowen)

Day 31: Death of God as Father and Mother

Day 31: I don't want to leave the ocean

Day 30: Bible Contradictions with Holy Koolaid

Bible Secret #3: I was raised believing that every book in the bible actually happened the way it was written.  I remember one moment as a young person as I was walking out in nature having a slightly disturbing thought in my head.   I had to conclude that the characters in the Bible lived when the laws of nature were different than they were in my time line.  I couldn't see a correlation between the magic of the bible and my life, but no one was telling me that it was possible that they were stories.  So my only way to navigate the difference as to why Peter could walk on water and I couldn't was that the laws of nature weren't same two thousand years ago.  So sometime after the bible stories,  nature changed and water wasn't walkable anymore.  

* * *

I discovered Thomas Westbrook  and his Youtube channel Holy Koolaid a couple of years ago.  He caught my attention with some of his videos.  I have my favourites, but since this week is about Bible Scholarship, I wanted to highlight a couple of videos that Thomas did on Bible Contradictions.  

12 Contradictions in the Bible 

13 More Contradictions in the Bible 

I remember a moment when I was at Bible School back in the late 80's when a friend of my roommate's came to visit.  A few of us were having a conversation about the bible, and I remember some of her words thirty five years later.  

"I don't know about the bible... there are so many contradictions ."  

It went something like that.  It was the first time that someone had suggested to me that the stories I grew up with and had been studying at the time were not always matching in their content.  I remember her words today, but back then, they didn't sink in.  No one else was telling me that there were contradictions that challenged the reality of the stories.  But I already admitted that reading the bible seriously wasn't a passion of mine.  I was only in Bible School because my other alternatives for education weren't an option for me at the time.  I breezed through without actually caring to dive deeper into the messiness of the Bible and the pastor teachers weren't encouraging me with an introduction to the mess.  

I am in my mid fifties now unable to understand why I couldn't connect the dots much earlier.  Why was it so easy to just assume that I had been given a flawless narrative?  Why was it so easy to accept as "truth"?  Where was my brain back then?  I wish I could go back and ask that girl what she was thinking and maybe I would discover that thinking wasn't a priority.  She wanted to play, enjoy the outdoors, connect with the animals around her.  School was boring; church was boring.  She just did that because her parents wanted her to do it.  I couldn't ask that girl to do any deep thinking back then... but I can do it for her now.  

Day 30: 2022 - "Looking for something a lot more simple" 

Day 30: 2023 - " Wolves in the Snow" 

Note:  This puzzle is still on my shelf awaiting the courage in me to start it.  

Day 29: Mindshift

Bible Secret #2:  I was prepubescent, maybe around 10 years old, when I first discovered the story of Onan.  (see Genesis 38).  I didn't know what semen was back then, so I wondered what Onan was pouring on the ground to prevent him from having a baby with his brother's wife.  I didn't grow up with any sex education from my parents, so I was totally in the realm of imagination for that one. Not knowing the real details of the withdrawal method, I just guessed that semen was some sort of sterility potion that Onan poured out to keep Tamar from getting pregnant.  I didn't know how babies were made when I was 10.  I never had that conversation with my parents.  

Maybe that story stuck out for me because I was the second born child and got my sister's hand me downs often... clothes, toys... but Onan got the ultimate in a hand-me-down... a wife.  I can imagine a bit of what that might have felt like for Onan.  Looking at that story now... it still makes me sick that that it was one of my first introductions to the content of the Children's Bible my parents gave me. 

    * * * 

Maybe Brandon from the Mindshift Youtube channel would also get sick at the idea of a child having to make sense of a story that would make any movie back then R-Rated.  It's what I like about his biblical analysis.  He calls out the sick and twisted stuff for what it is. 

After my interest for Bart Ehrman's material started to wane, I found myself listening more to Brandon's take on the Bible.  Maybe I just needed a different voice and a different perspective.  Maybe I wasn't bored of the Bible just yet.  I have enjoyed Brandon's Secular Bible Study.  I have been to a lot of Bible Studies in my time, and this one takes the cake.  Brandon doesn't whitewash the horridness of the stories and doesn't need to defend "Yahweh" who isn't that great of a loving "God" once you start to read his bio.  

It makes me wonder how I was so able to whitewash those stories, because I had read them and knew them... but somehow, I was still able to find a loving "God" in there somewhere.  I got good at picking cherries... real good.  

I will share some of my favourite Mindshift videos here.  Brandon keeps coming up with great material and I would recommend him to anyone who wants a reality check when it comes to the Christianity and the Bible.  

Thank you Brandon! 

What does an Atheist have to be thankful for?  

Commanded to Love: A Paradoxical Demand. 

Does Atheism lead to Nihilism?: Let's talk Meaning, Morality and Philosophy.

Escaping Religion: Lessons from my Journey Out. 

The Problem with Paradise: 7 reasons why Heaven fails. 

How to come out as an Atheist: 7 essential tips

Beyond the Bible: Where else can Wisdom be found? 

* * *

Day 29: 2022 - "Reaching Maximum Potential" 

Day 29: 2023 - "Abandoned" 

Day 28: Thank you Bart, and Good-bye for now Bart.

For this week, I will come out with some personally revealed "Bible Secrets" from my own life before I dive into the personality of the day.  

Bible Secret #1:  I never enjoyed reading the bible.  It was always a chore for me.  I enjoyed some of the stories as a kid, but to sit down and read them from a bible with no pictures and small print wasn't at all fun for me.  My Mom got me a Picture Bible when I was a teenager. She figured it out too.  That was better.  As an adult, I can't even say that I enjoyed reading the bible.  I felt that I had to to belong in Club Christianity.  But I could never come to the joy of the experience.  

* * * 

Bart Ehrman came into my life after Peter Enns started the disruption of scripture.  I had already lost half the Jenga Tower of biblical inherency thanks to Pete... so when Bart came along, it was just more disruption and more rubble.  

In 2020, I got my hands on "Jesus, Interuppted" and when I went to do my blog post on the book, I had found some joy with the discovery that Bart Erhman believed there was a real Jesus.  Somehow I was glad this agnostic athiest and humanist bible scholar concluded that Jesus was real... because back in 2020, I still needed Jesus to be real in my life.  It was one of the last ropes I had to hang on to hoping that most of my life wasn't dedicated to a fictitious creature from ancient mythology.  It made sense that people goosed the story along the way, but at the heart of it, there seemed to be a real person that existed.  Maybe there was something to that guy that made life different.  

I dived into Bart's online blog and online courses.  I wanted to understand more about the Bible.  I still had no interest in reading it, but I was interested in hearing from someone that could read the bible in the language it was written in.  I figured he could offer me more in context than my own reading in the English.   My current collection in my Bart Erhman Thrive Cart is fourteen courses and one online conference.  I soaked it all in... right up until a few months ago when his "Matthew" course came up for purchase.  I struggled with the choice to add it to my collection, not because I didn't want it, but because I was already losing interest in Bart Ehrman's material.  Matthew was a book that I had almost finished memorizing about twenty years ago.  It was one of my favourite books of the Bible.  It would have been one more purchase and maybe I would have enjoyed the content... but I had to come to the realization that my time with Bart was over.  It was time to move on.  I didn't purchase the course.  If I change my mind, I can still buy it, but I haven't been in my Course Collection to go over any of the other material I bought.  It's been over a couple months since I have listened to his "Misquoting Jesus' Podcast I used to enjoy so much.  I loved the conversation he had with Megan Lewis, his co-host.   I just stopped being interested.  It really was time to move on. 

All that being said... I have a lot of gratitude for Bart Ehrman and what he contributed to my journey.  I started having an issue with one of his conclusions and maybe that weighed on me.  Maybe it is okay to move on and listen to some other voices.  Maybe it was never a good idea to get all my insight from one person.  It's why I enjoy a multitude of voices.  That is what I am trying to do here in Authentic Lent.  I want to share the multitude of voices that have something to contribute to my journey.  

What was the one issue?  Stay tuned to hear about that on March 16 when I visit with the mythicists.  

Day 28: 2022 - "My Birthday Experiment" 

Day 28: 2023 - " I can hug a tree" 

Day 27: Introducing Secular Bible Club week

This week I want to dedicate to the Secular Bible Club.  That's right... there are people who still like that book long after it ceased to be "holy" for them.  I owe a lot to this club.  I owe a better understanding of a collection of ancient writings that seem to have transformed the world.  It's why an atheist scholar by the name of Bart Erhman still does what he does.  He finds value in helping others understand a library of books that has impacted our culture and our world.  Josh Bowen gets excited by digging in the ancient dust as well.  Brandon from Mindshift is almost through the Old Testament in his Secular Bible Study Series.  His insights have been enlightening but have given me spiritual indigestion.  Really! I thought Yahweh was supposed to be a good god?  Not anymore.    One of my favourite perspectives as of late have been the mythicists:  Richard Carrier and David Fitzgerald.   The offer a different view than Bart Ehrman does (who embraces a real historic Jesus).  After listening to them, it's hard to write off their understanding of a mythical Jesus as easy as Bart Ehrman seems to do.  

I have to be honest.  The only thing that has kept me interested in the contents of the Bible, have been these men.  That's right... last week was Courageous Women's Week... this week will be Insanely Smart Men's Week.  I'm not saying that there aren't women who have dived into the Bible and found it lacking.  One of the first people who introduced me to a lacking bible was Rachel Held Evans.  As of late  in the last few years and even the last few weeks, these men have helped me to be informed as to what the Bible could mean even for those who who have left Christianity.   

I still have no interest in reading the Bible in my own personal space.  There may be a lot of reasons for that, or there may be no reasons.  Right now, I just don't want to.  I have books galore by people that are a lot closer to my timeline in the cosmos that I want to read.  

I will do what I can to be honest and "authentic" this week about who these men were to me and who they are now.  My journey of appreciation changes and I still want to express my gratitude for the place they all had helping me along the way.  They took me farther than any pastor or Christian apologist ever did.  

Day 27: 2023 - "The Beginning of Spring" 

Day 27: 2022 - "Had I only known" 

Day 26: The Carnivore Atheist

Day 26: 2022 - "Only one thought today"

Today's Day 26 readings are going to be the inspiration for today's post.  

Two years ago, on Day 26, I must not have been in a writing mood.  I had "only one thought" to share... "One man's meat is another man's poison."  I went searching for the origin for that quote and found this.  

Whether the Roman poet and philosopher Titus Lucretius Carus (known as Lucretius) coined the expression in the first century BC, or merely repeated it, his is the oldest known reference: "quod ali cibus est aliis fuat acre venenum" (what is food for one man may be bitter poison to others).

Had I more energy that day, I might have dived into it a little more.  Now that I am a carnivore, it means something different to me.  

Day 26: 2023 - "The Death of my need to be right about "God" "

Then I followed it up by last year's Day 26 revisit to 2022's Day 31 post on chocolate preferences. .  (which will show up again in five days... sorry about that).  

I have been a carnivore since last November.  The carnivore "diet" is an animal based eating regimen.  It is ketogenic, but more restricted in it's intake than the standard keto diet.  My husband and I have found amazing results and benefits by just eating meat and eggs.  I will put some Youtube links at the end for anyone wanting more information on the benefits of Carnivore. I do want to see if there is a correlation between my food choice and my life journey. 

Back to "one man's meat is another man's poison."  When I chewed on that thought a little more, I wanted to agree with the conclusion that not every human functions on the same fuel.  Now I am wondering if there is only one functionally good fuel for the human body, but we have adapted to be able to survive on different kinds of fuel.  That is my experience with carnivore, and may apply to human philosophy as well.  Maybe as a species there is only one natural way to explain our existence on Planet Earth and in the Cosmos, but we have adapted to survive and even thrive with a multitude of understandings.  

Most Christians have adopted the ideology that there is only "one way" for all humans to understand their existence.  They have the answer and it has become their mission on this planet to convince everyone else that it's the "truth".  There are so many flaws with this assumption, but most of them don't bother the average Christian.  

Back to my food.  I eat meat and it works for me.  Maybe the human body evolved to function best on meat.  It makes sense.  There are other animals that function best on a meat diet.   So does it make sense for me to say that everyone needs meat to live?  Nope... because I lived for a half a century not eating only meat.  There are people not eating meat that are still surviving.  Who am I to say that they it doesn't work for them.  Maybe, I believe now that meat is the only natural original fuel for humans, but humans have adapted to intake other sources of fuel.  That is the secret to our sustainability as a species... we can adapt.  

I've adapted past my need for the Christian narrative.  I no longer need the fuel of Christianity to survive.  Maybe, like carnivore, I have actually returned to what in natural.  Maybe Christianity and all religious expressions are the adapting, not the other way around.  But this is my blog, my opinion, and my assumption.  I don't need to enforce it with anyone else.  It works for me, I've either adapted to eating meat and being secular or returned to my natural state.  

I have noticed a trend though.  Aside from me, I don't know any Carnivore Atheists, but I have been exposed to Atheist Vegans and Carnivore Theists.  I wonder if there is a correlation.  I feel like an odd duck again.  But it works for me.  So I will be happy with my odd duck status.  

Here are some Carnivore references for anyone interested in what it's all about.  

"Nothing tastes as good as being healthy feels." Mikhaila Peterson

Mikhaila Peterson Reports after 5 YEARS on Carnivore Diet  

"Here's a question... Why is everyone fat and stupid?... There's something wrong with the way we're eating. " Jordan Peterson

"Eat until you're comfortable stuffed." Dr Ken Berry

CARNIVORE Diet (Beginner's Guide) All You Need to Get Started - 2024

"Food is supposed to be Fuel,

 not Entertainment."  

Ruby Neumann